You have come hard on people prophesing on “Methodology” and not “Skills”, but to my surprise, on the front page, top left panel “Navigation” on http://www.satisfice.com, the first listing is “Testing - Methodology” and then “Testing - Tools”. Why is “Testing-Skills” missing on the whole page itself?

[James' Reply: The short answer is because I don't know how to package testing skills on a website... But also, I'm not opposed to methodology in any way. I'm opposed to idolization of methods. I have ideas about what to do and how to do it, just like everyone else. AND I invite you to be skeptical about what I offer, and rethink things for yourself.

I appreciate your question, BTW.]

The most unfortunate thing is, in the name of Customer feedback, Value certification push is being forced into the services at various Big organizations who claim to be the Big testing power houses. This to the effect that none of the certifications are testing related but ….no ones knows the mapping.

Astonishing thing is this is linked to their performance appraisal and even if they are the best of the lot, if they have not completed this ir-relevant certifications, they will be moved to lower rating and thus salary grade. Mind you, after 2 consecutive downgrades, you will be shown the door. How stupid or how employee friendly?

[James' Reply: When doctors allow themselves to peddle fake remedies, unwitting people demand those, too. It's up to us to police ourselves, and refuse to lie, even when it's lucrative.]

If you happen to attend this year, I shall meet you next year, since I hope you wouldn’t want to feel a sinner like me.

Cast conference: Value for money, value for time, value for value.

I write from Argentine and I’m very interesting for your ” testing tutorial ” and by this conference because I work as test lead in Atos Origin Company.

I frequently post news in my blog (http://www.testingsoftware.com.ar).

From now on I will be one of its readers and if I may go up in my blog some of your news.

best regards
Gustavo Terrera

In my experience, it’s the same kind of thinking that demands large volumes of metrics. It gives management a warm, fuzzy feeling that things are going well in spite of reality. This team, and others that I observed in my time there, had beautiful charts and graphs that made it look they were really doing great testing. We would run some final checks on their area that was officially 100% executed/100% passing and within minutes find show-stopping bugs. I’m wondering if other people have had the same observations.

This is just one more reason why I have come to distrust certifications. When I interview people now and they start to tell me about all their certifications I always tell them that I won’t hold that against them, and then immediately start to ask questions that assess their skill level. Fortunately, I get very few of those types of candidates.

For me, certifications are like putting a seat belt on a motorcycle. It gives you a false sense of security, but when crunch (or crash) time comes it really doesn’t do anything for you.

As I am working in a very big semiconductors company which values the help for the community, I am involved in volunteering in giving lessons in a social project which gives IT training for youngsters in order that they will be able to start their careers in the hi-tec industry (here in Israel).

Few of the guys which just finished the QA course and are looking for jobs asked us wether we could deliver them the ITCQB material so they could get “certify” and hopefully increase their ability to get a job.

I went back to them with the following offer - I am qouting the mail I sent to their program co ordinator:

Following our conversation, here is my suggestion for a lesson for the QA course graduates.

Goal of the lesson is to suggest ways to create a portfolio for a beginner in testing. I am confident that gaining such experience will be valuable by potential employers.

Lesson content:

Give an overview of different options, like open source and community testing, and how to use them in order to gain a skill in testing.
How to be able to explain and demonstrate your experience.

Such lesson is just a kick off and suggesting ideas. the hard work will start when the lesson ends. No pain no gain

End of mail.

I still hope that they will accept this offer. I know that its harder then to prepre to a multiple choice memorizing exam. But the bottom line is that here are alternatives.

[James' Reply: Wow, Issi, that sounds great.]

It gets me a foot in the door, nothing else. I still have to deliver. Me and my integrity sleep like a baby, thanks very much.

[James' Reply: It's not an ad hominem attack to point out the absurdity of the "edge is an edge" argument. It would be an ad hominem attack if I told you that you're wrong because you are a poopy head. That's not what I did. In fact, I would even say you're not wrong, you simply made a plain and straightforward statement that you although you AGREE with me on the substance of my arguments, you CHOOSE to PRETEND to others as if you value something that you have implicitly claimed not to value. That's called lying. You are telling us that you say things you don't believe in order to get ahead.

There's hope for you, though. You can still take the ISTQB banner off of your CV unless you believe it really makes you a better tester.]

On a more serious note, when I am running my own or other people’s training, the main thing I try to give students is a passion for testing, and an enthusiasm for learning. All good testers do this, Dot, Stuart, Paul G, Cem. Michael B, you, etc. The other thing is giving a context to what they are learning. Having trained testers who have floundered in their early careers without any knowledge, some sort of basic foundation knowledge is a useful starting point, but simplification of knowledge is a dangerous thing that an experienced trainer can point out, where someone less industry savvy may not.

[James' Reply: As I've said many times, I don't think the ISTQB provides a reasonable or useful foundation. I think the ISTQB view of testing is like creationist "science": lot's of mythology, uncritically mushed together.]

My favorite example is any foundation course that mentions coverage. Simplistic courses say go for 100% code coverage as a measure of great quality. I prefer not to mention coverage with novices, but when I do, I spend 5 minutes giving a history of coding practices, showing how simple 1960s Cobol like programs benefitted from code coverage, but the modern program of complex dataflows and objects with inherited properties may have 100% coverage ans still be unusable. The simplest example is the calculator tested with 100% statement and branch coverage that crashes when it tries to divide by zero.
Re standing up for professional temperance, late night after a day of a testing conference, zero temperance by most drinking testers, and some of them can barely even stand up either [grin]
I once trained a marketer in a certification (that included 3 hours of prac for every day of training). I explained that I wasn’t making him into a tester, but making him a more analytical thinker. He passed, and at least he sold the course more honestly after that…….

[James' Reply: I teach coverage but I mean a different thing by it, probably. I don't limit coverage to code. To cover is to examine with respect to a model of what can be examined.]

Yes. Maybe then skilled testers will get noticed. In many companies some skilled testers keep getting rejected in the HR round itself just because of such certifications or that they haven’t done any testing diploma from any known institute. Many a times even in job sites we can see such examples:
Urgently required ISTQB/Diploma holder in S/w testing for a reputed MNC.
We can only hope & try from our side to at least minimize such things to make this field a better work place.

Certificates never carry the sign of the (Good/Better/Best).

Thanks.

I really wish that 3 years ago when I came into this field I should have been guided by some one like you/Michael/Pradeep,etc… Because at the start of my career when I joined as a fresher I was asked by my TL to take up ISTQB. Out of curiosity & excitement I decided to opt for it but was really depressed by the notes and even coaching which was arranged for through the company. But now I make sure that who all newbies want to come into testing don’t fall for this trap.
Even today during my interviews/my friends/colleagues keep on asking me that why don’t I opt for ISTQB. What have I done in testing in the span of 3 years?? And my answer remains the same - I’m trying hard enough to sharpen my skills for being known as a “skilled tester” more than just a “certified tester”.

[James' Reply: Thank you, Roshni!]

The CV was excellent but why on earth would this experienced tester feel to show allegiance to something as trivial as ISTQB? Did he/she get paid to do this? An experienced tester should know better and if not….. I would have loved to interview the person but never got the chance to (was not for our unit). I was happy to hear though that he/she found work somewhere else. The last thing I need is someone in-house doing the ISTQB drum-roll.

But I must admit that CV shocked me. It showed a level of acceptance that I’m actively trying to prevent. Managers seeing such a good CV in association with the logo are bound to make a wrong connection. The only thing it really proved to me is that you can be a good tester in spite of having done ISTQB.