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	<title>Comments on: Transpective Dialogs for Learning</title>
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	<description>The Consulting Software Tester</description>
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		<title>By: Ted Morris Dawson</title>
		<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62/comment-page-1#comment-262459</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Morris Dawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2010 06:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62#comment-262459</guid>
		<description>Yay! The thread is still alive! Following on from the RST course I became particularly excited that this idea, or method of asking questions, was shared by others in the testing field. And now I learn that it has a name. Transpecting. Cool.

And so I&#039;ve been asking questions of my team of the transpectional kind. All the time. Maybe too much. I sometimes feel like I&#039;m running around going &quot;Come ON, let&#039;s wake up!&quot; - and I imagine that people do not consider themselves to be asleep and they can react in defensive ways. And this can happen even when the transpection is made explicit. It may sound like fun to have your thoughts reflected on, challenged, questioned, investigated - it does to me, but often the feelings that come along during this process can be very uncomfortable. Did you ever consent to participate in an investigative process only to find that you&#039;re actually quite attached to some of your ideas, and that in fact you own them, and it is quite frankly no-one&#039;s business at all how they came into being? &quot;Hey! Stop messing with my IP!&quot; 

I actually think it is inevitable that transpection will upset someone. It is the nature of the beast. Perhaps I can include this possibility when I frame a transpectional encounter, not so much that I may seem annoyed, but more that &quot;you might find yourself getting annoyed&quot; - I would be willing to continue the conversation even if you do, would you? - we both might learn something.

NB I haven&#039;t tried this yet, but I&#039;m positing it an option for my next transpectional encounter. It is delightful to contemplate becoming more skilled at asking meaningful questions.

&lt;em&gt;[James&#039; Reply: I think you&#039;re right about all that. I guess that&#039;s why I mostly transpect with my closer colleagues, or else my students. My students have to put up with it, and my colleagues enjoy it.]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay! The thread is still alive! Following on from the RST course I became particularly excited that this idea, or method of asking questions, was shared by others in the testing field. And now I learn that it has a name. Transpecting. Cool.</p>
<p>And so I&#8217;ve been asking questions of my team of the transpectional kind. All the time. Maybe too much. I sometimes feel like I&#8217;m running around going &#8220;Come ON, let&#8217;s wake up!&#8221; &#8211; and I imagine that people do not consider themselves to be asleep and they can react in defensive ways. And this can happen even when the transpection is made explicit. It may sound like fun to have your thoughts reflected on, challenged, questioned, investigated &#8211; it does to me, but often the feelings that come along during this process can be very uncomfortable. Did you ever consent to participate in an investigative process only to find that you&#8217;re actually quite attached to some of your ideas, and that in fact you own them, and it is quite frankly no-one&#8217;s business at all how they came into being? &#8220;Hey! Stop messing with my IP!&#8221; </p>
<p>I actually think it is inevitable that transpection will upset someone. It is the nature of the beast. Perhaps I can include this possibility when I frame a transpectional encounter, not so much that I may seem annoyed, but more that &#8220;you might find yourself getting annoyed&#8221; &#8211; I would be willing to continue the conversation even if you do, would you? &#8211; we both might learn something.</p>
<p>NB I haven&#8217;t tried this yet, but I&#8217;m positing it an option for my next transpectional encounter. It is delightful to contemplate becoming more skilled at asking meaningful questions.</p>
<p><em>[James' Reply: I think you're right about all that. I guess that's why I mostly transpect with my closer colleagues, or else my students. My students have to put up with it, and my colleagues enjoy it.]</em></p>
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		<title>By: Petteri Lyytinen</title>
		<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62/comment-page-1#comment-261923</link>
		<dc:creator>Petteri Lyytinen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62#comment-261923</guid>
		<description>James,

After reading through your blog for a couple of days now, I find it almost frightening how similar my way of thinking and approaching various subjects is to yours. Not to say that I would agree with everything, though. Especially there were a couple of points in the two &quot;Quality is dead&quot; posts that I disagreed with, but more about those once I have the time to come up with a properly formatted response. :)

Overall, I can only say that transpection, in my experience, is one of the best ways to learn to understand (and tolerate!) views and beliefs that differ from my own. I sometimes even joke about it to the people whom I (ruthlessly) use as my transpection targets; people tend to take my &quot;scrutinizing&quot; more lightly when they think the whole thing is just a harmless jest (oh, those poor souls, if they only knew..)

One point in the post struck me as something that needs commenting:

&quot;When somebody I’m transpecting says something that reveals a new insight for me, I tend to get excited, and I follow up with questions that I’m told sound especially sharp and even angry. Actually I’m very happy, as a shark is happy to find a tasty sea lion. The sea lion might get the impression that the shark is angry, but he’s really not.&quot;

I&#039;d say that&#039;s a rather dangerous analogy to use in this case (eventhough it perfectly clarifies the point) as, in most cases, the said sea lion ends up being eaten - a condition in which I wouldn&#039;t expect it to much appreciate the shark&#039;s newfound happiness. ;)

&lt;em&gt;[James&#039; Reply: Yeah, I guess you&#039;re right. It was fun to say, though. I&#039;m looking forward to your further comments.]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,</p>
<p>After reading through your blog for a couple of days now, I find it almost frightening how similar my way of thinking and approaching various subjects is to yours. Not to say that I would agree with everything, though. Especially there were a couple of points in the two &#8220;Quality is dead&#8221; posts that I disagreed with, but more about those once I have the time to come up with a properly formatted response. <img src='http://www.satisfice.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Overall, I can only say that transpection, in my experience, is one of the best ways to learn to understand (and tolerate!) views and beliefs that differ from my own. I sometimes even joke about it to the people whom I (ruthlessly) use as my transpection targets; people tend to take my &#8220;scrutinizing&#8221; more lightly when they think the whole thing is just a harmless jest (oh, those poor souls, if they only knew..)</p>
<p>One point in the post struck me as something that needs commenting:</p>
<p>&#8220;When somebody I’m transpecting says something that reveals a new insight for me, I tend to get excited, and I follow up with questions that I’m told sound especially sharp and even angry. Actually I’m very happy, as a shark is happy to find a tasty sea lion. The sea lion might get the impression that the shark is angry, but he’s really not.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say that&#8217;s a rather dangerous analogy to use in this case (eventhough it perfectly clarifies the point) as, in most cases, the said sea lion ends up being eaten &#8211; a condition in which I wouldn&#8217;t expect it to much appreciate the shark&#8217;s newfound happiness. <img src='http://www.satisfice.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><em>[James' Reply: Yeah, I guess you're right. It was fun to say, though. I'm looking forward to your further comments.]</em></p>
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		<title>By: Jim Batterson</title>
		<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62/comment-page-1#comment-166173</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Batterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62#comment-166173</guid>
		<description>Pardon me for joining the discussion rather late. 

Many years ago a colleague and I co-taught a programming class.  Our friend Jerry once observed that &quot;mathematics is fraudulent&quot;.  That is, the teacher stands up in front of the students and says &quot;this is how this proof is derived - step one, step two, step three, step four and it is done&quot;.  But of course, that is not how it was done the first time, the first time someone did it if six steps with three errors, and over the last hundred years it has been refined by generations of mathematicians to the now elegant solution you see before your.  Programming is often taught the same way. 

And so my colleague and I would come to the class and we would take turns presenting each other with a fresh and rather difficult problem to solve before the class.  The object was to talk through the thought process as much as possible so that the class could see the mental approach being taken.  When one gets stuck it, then there is always a student who will ask just the right question to help you over the hump.  

I think what we were doing was rather similar to your technique.  We also had students work our problems in small groups around a white board so that they could share their thought processes among themselves.  

We got all sorts of good feedback. 

Jim   Ya&#039;an, China 3 January 2009</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pardon me for joining the discussion rather late. </p>
<p>Many years ago a colleague and I co-taught a programming class.  Our friend Jerry once observed that &#8220;mathematics is fraudulent&#8221;.  That is, the teacher stands up in front of the students and says &#8220;this is how this proof is derived &#8211; step one, step two, step three, step four and it is done&#8221;.  But of course, that is not how it was done the first time, the first time someone did it if six steps with three errors, and over the last hundred years it has been refined by generations of mathematicians to the now elegant solution you see before your.  Programming is often taught the same way. </p>
<p>And so my colleague and I would come to the class and we would take turns presenting each other with a fresh and rather difficult problem to solve before the class.  The object was to talk through the thought process as much as possible so that the class could see the mental approach being taken.  When one gets stuck it, then there is always a student who will ask just the right question to help you over the hump.  </p>
<p>I think what we were doing was rather similar to your technique.  We also had students work our problems in small groups around a white board so that they could share their thought processes among themselves.  </p>
<p>We got all sorts of good feedback. </p>
<p>Jim   Ya&#8217;an, China 3 January 2009</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Pearson</title>
		<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62/comment-page-1#comment-10818</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Pearson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 04:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62#comment-10818</guid>
		<description>For more information on &quot;transpection&quot; read the works of Magoroh Maruyama, the father of this method of understanding.  His theory dates back to 1969.  You can find some of his writings in &quot;Cultures of the Future&quot; published by Mouton Publishers 1978.  This compendium is part of a series called &quot;World Anthropology.&quot;

As for real world practice, I have used it passively and primarily through listening coupled with what is called the &quot;walk-in&quot; method to understand people as I travel around the world.  It has served me well as a manager with global responsibility.

&lt;em&gt;[James&#039; Reply: Thank you Mark!]Â &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For more information on &#8220;transpection&#8221; read the works of Magoroh Maruyama, the father of this method of understanding.  His theory dates back to 1969.  You can find some of his writings in &#8220;Cultures of the Future&#8221; published by Mouton Publishers 1978.  This compendium is part of a series called &#8220;World Anthropology.&#8221;</p>
<p>As for real world practice, I have used it passively and primarily through listening coupled with what is called the &#8220;walk-in&#8221; method to understand people as I travel around the world.  It has served me well as a manager with global responsibility.</p>
<p><em>[James' Reply: Thank you Mark!]Â </em></p>
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		<title>By: James Bullock</title>
		<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62/comment-page-1#comment-2949</link>
		<dc:creator>James Bullock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 02:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62#comment-2949</guid>
		<description>I wonder what would happen if you invited your conversation partners into this conversation explicitly? What would happen if you invited them into a conversation where you would both, together explore your reasoning as well as theirs?

In doing as you described without preamble you&#039;ve placed yourself in a pronounced &quot;one up&quot; position in transactional analysis terms. If you engage in a conversation they&#039;re not expecting you are well off script in &quot;Presentation of Everyday Live&quot; (Goffman) terms. They don&#039;t know what game they are in. The game immediately available to explain the experience they are having is not a happy one.

I learn at least as much while trying to explain myself to others as I do questioning their reasoning. The stuff I learn when I let them drive tends to be a bit more startling to me, and thus rewarding.

&lt;em&gt;[James&#039; Reply: The whole point of transpective dialog is to learn from what happens in someone else&#039;s head. That is impaired if I inject my own ideas into their thinking. Certainly there is a different way of learning from people, I guess it would be called ordinary dialog, that involves both sides contributing ideas to a community thought process. That&#039;s great, too. I do that. I also do transpection. I find myself doing transpection a lot.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;As I think more about it, I think my preference for transpection is connected with critical thinking. Transpection is a tool for self-criticism.Â &lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;I agree that unannounced transpection can cause trouble, but not because I&#039;m in a one-up situation. You might just as well say I&#039;m in a one-down situation, since I am giving priority to the other persons ideas. It causes trouble in cases where people begin to suspect they are being manipulated or used-- when they &lt;strong&gt;suspect &lt;/strong&gt;they are one-down.
&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;That&#039;s why I have found it useful to distinguish between shallow and deep transpection, and then to let people know what game I&#039;m inviting them to play, when I&#039;m going to play hard.]Â &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what would happen if you invited your conversation partners into this conversation explicitly? What would happen if you invited them into a conversation where you would both, together explore your reasoning as well as theirs?</p>
<p>In doing as you described without preamble you&#8217;ve placed yourself in a pronounced &#8220;one up&#8221; position in transactional analysis terms. If you engage in a conversation they&#8217;re not expecting you are well off script in &#8220;Presentation of Everyday Live&#8221; (Goffman) terms. They don&#8217;t know what game they are in. The game immediately available to explain the experience they are having is not a happy one.</p>
<p>I learn at least as much while trying to explain myself to others as I do questioning their reasoning. The stuff I learn when I let them drive tends to be a bit more startling to me, and thus rewarding.</p>
<p><em>[James' Reply: The whole point of transpective dialog is to learn from what happens in someone else's head. That is impaired if I inject my own ideas into their thinking. Certainly there is a different way of learning from people, I guess it would be called ordinary dialog, that involves both sides contributing ideas to a community thought process. That's great, too. I do that. I also do transpection. I find myself doing transpection a lot.</em></p>
<p><em>As I think more about it, I think my preference for transpection is connected with critical thinking. Transpection is a tool for self-criticism.Â </em></p>
<p><em>I agree that unannounced transpection can cause trouble, but not because I'm in a one-up situation. You might just as well say I'm in a one-down situation, since I am giving priority to the other persons ideas. It causes trouble in cases where people begin to suspect they are being manipulated or used-- when they <strong>suspect </strong>they are one-down.<br />
</em></p>
<p><em>That's why I have found it useful to distinguish between shallow and deep transpection, and then to let people know what game I'm inviting them to play, when I'm going to play hard.]Â </em></p>
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		<title>By: David Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62/comment-page-1#comment-2915</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Sep 2006 19:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62#comment-2915</guid>
		<description>James -- Okay, I&#039;ll bite...you say  &quot;Most people feel like they are being interrogated or even tortured (and not in the good senses of those words) when I ask all those critical questions during transpection.&quot;  What exactly ARE the good senses of those words?

&lt;em&gt;[James&#039; Reply: Well, it was one of my half-jokes: it seems absurd, but isn&#039;t. Try googling for the phrases &quot;tortuous pleasure&quot; or &quot;tortured pleasure&quot; or consider the positive connotations of the word &quot;tease&quot; as in striptease; and see Webster&#039;s definition #2 for interrogate &quot;to give or send out a signal to (as a transponder) for triggering an appropriate response&quot;.]&lt;/em&gt;

That aside, as another person who has gone through this process with you, aside from the eventual learning of what you learned in the process, I find the greatest benefit to me personally is that it forces me to slow down and try to become more cognizant of WHY I am doing WHAT I am doing at any given time.  My struggle to answer your questions reveals to me strengths and weaknesses in my motivation, if not also in my actions.  It is a very valuable, and for me, enjoyable, process.

&lt;em&gt;[James&#039; Reply: As I recall, I gave you a briefing when we started working that my method was to ask a lot of questions and that some of my questions might sound strange or annoyed, but that I hoped you would not assume that I was annoyed. Then again, the thing about you, David, is you are one tough and confident fellow. You&#039;re like a junkyard dog. It&#039;s more of a problem when I&#039;m dealing with greener or otherwise more fragile people.]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James &#8212; Okay, I&#8217;ll bite&#8230;you say  &#8220;Most people feel like they are being interrogated or even tortured (and not in the good senses of those words) when I ask all those critical questions during transpection.&#8221;  What exactly ARE the good senses of those words?</p>
<p><em>[James' Reply: Well, it was one of my half-jokes: it seems absurd, but isn't. Try googling for the phrases "tortuous pleasure" or "tortured pleasure" or consider the positive connotations of the word "tease" as in striptease; and see Webster's definition #2 for interrogate "to give or send out a signal to (as a transponder) for triggering an appropriate response".]</em></p>
<p>That aside, as another person who has gone through this process with you, aside from the eventual learning of what you learned in the process, I find the greatest benefit to me personally is that it forces me to slow down and try to become more cognizant of WHY I am doing WHAT I am doing at any given time.  My struggle to answer your questions reveals to me strengths and weaknesses in my motivation, if not also in my actions.  It is a very valuable, and for me, enjoyable, process.</p>
<p><em>[James' Reply: As I recall, I gave you a briefing when we started working that my method was to ask a lot of questions and that some of my questions might sound strange or annoyed, but that I hoped you would not assume that I was annoyed. Then again, the thing about you, David, is you are one tough and confident fellow. You're like a junkyard dog. It's more of a problem when I'm dealing with greener or otherwise more fragile people.]</em></p>
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		<title>By: Pradeep Soundararajan</title>
		<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62/comment-page-1#comment-2850</link>
		<dc:creator>Pradeep Soundararajan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Sep 2006 06:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/62#comment-2850</guid>
		<description>This is interesting, especially to people like me whom you transpect with and would help to those whom you are going to transpect in the future.

Whenever I interact with you, I am aware that I should be looking for the learning that are straight forward and those that are hidden. It is kind of you to explain the transpection process and seek permission, since it makes me more conscious to look at more hidden learning than I am able to find, whenever I feel I am being stressed.

With such a mindset, I am happy whenever I am stressed since I know there is a treasure nearby. Also as your student, it makes me think that there need not necessarily be a treasure nearby :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting, especially to people like me whom you transpect with and would help to those whom you are going to transpect in the future.</p>
<p>Whenever I interact with you, I am aware that I should be looking for the learning that are straight forward and those that are hidden. It is kind of you to explain the transpection process and seek permission, since it makes me more conscious to look at more hidden learning than I am able to find, whenever I feel I am being stressed.</p>
<p>With such a mindset, I am happy whenever I am stressed since I know there is a treasure nearby. Also as your student, it makes me think that there need not necessarily be a treasure nearby <img src='http://www.satisfice.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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