Comments on: New Version of the ET Dynamics Lists http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/370 The Consulting Software Tester Tue, 16 Mar 2010 06:01:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Gil Zilberfeld http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/370/comment-page-1#comment-225593 Gil Zilberfeld Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:48:18 +0000 http://www.satisfice.com/blog/?p=370#comment-225593 Hi James, My name is Gil Zilberfeld, and with my colleague, Roy Osherove, we do a video cast called: <a href="http://learn.typemock.com/this-week-in-test/2009/11/11/episode-3-magic-numbers.html" rel="nofollow">This week in testing</a>. Roy talks a bit about the new article in this episode, so please come and watch. And if you like, talk about us so more people can enjoy. Thanks, Gil Zilberfeld Typemock <em>[James' Reply: I like your energy in the video. I like how you expressed some skepticism about "10%". I want to see more critical questioning. 99% of us (far too high, since the maximum acceptable percentage is 0%) accept whatever metrics anyone wants to make up. Can I get an amen?]</em> Hi James,

My name is Gil Zilberfeld, and with my colleague, Roy Osherove, we do a video cast called: This week in testing.

Roy talks a bit about the new article in this episode, so please come and watch. And if you like, talk about us so more people can enjoy.

Thanks,

Gil Zilberfeld
Typemock

[James' Reply: I like your energy in the video. I like how you expressed some skepticism about "10%". I want to see more critical questioning. 99% of us (far too high, since the maximum acceptable percentage is 0%) accept whatever metrics anyone wants to make up. Can I get an amen?]

]]> By: Riya Gupta http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/370/comment-page-1#comment-225079 Riya Gupta Mon, 09 Nov 2009 08:01:44 +0000 http://www.satisfice.com/blog/?p=370#comment-225079 When we are talking about Test Strategy. Let's not forget the popular test type i.e repetitive test activity. This form of test activity gives scenarios where applications fails and gives much hypes for quality free software. Accordingly we can plan our Test Strategy. But always we should go for Ad-hoc cycle in a testing phase, this type you can give some leverage to the test engineer to think and more to play with the software. Riya Gupta - http://www.testingmantra.com When we are talking about Test Strategy. Let’s not forget the popular test type i.e repetitive test activity. This form of test activity gives scenarios where applications fails and gives much hypes for quality free software. Accordingly we can plan our Test Strategy. But always we should go for Ad-hoc cycle in a testing phase, this type you can give some leverage to the test engineer to think and more to play with the software.

Riya Gupta
- http://www.testingmantra.com

]]> By: Peter http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/370/comment-page-1#comment-224072 Peter Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:49:30 +0000 http://www.satisfice.com/blog/?p=370#comment-224072 Just been catching up on my well worn copy of Testing Applications on the Web, Hung Q Nguyen. It was somewhat comforting to see " In operational terms, exploratory testing is an interactive process of concurrent product exploration, test design and test execution." - James Bach. Hung Q Nguyen along with Kaner and Falk are of course the Authors of "The Book" which makes the attribution to JB pretty close to nomination for Sainthood. So JB stop Bucaneering around and get the definitive work out before I am too old to read it. PS I have been working on my test capability assessment tool which I use to help me assess the capability of an organisation to support testing (usually prior to me setting up a testing centre) and it is inescapable that if an organisation has a low test capability score then any strategic approach to testing or any number of ISTQB certified clones will at best be a very expensive exercise in futility but at the same time as your capability to make the correct decisions is poor you will try all the cheap quick fix solutions. If your Capability score is very high, then chances are you already test really, really well in which case you don't need guys like me. What I am hinting at is that irrespective of what we strategise in terms of testing, it is just as important to communicate that the organisational capability to do stuff that supports testing is FAR more important tnan the exercise of actually testing. Make my life easier and you won't need to test! Just been catching up on my well worn copy of Testing Applications on the Web, Hung Q Nguyen. It was somewhat comforting to see ” In operational terms, exploratory testing is an interactive process of concurrent product exploration, test design and test execution.” - James Bach. Hung Q Nguyen along with Kaner and Falk are of course the Authors of “The Book” which makes the attribution to JB pretty close to nomination for Sainthood. So JB stop Bucaneering around and get the definitive work out before I am too old to read it. PS I have been working on my test capability assessment tool which I use to help me assess the capability of an organisation to support testing (usually prior to me setting up a testing centre) and it is inescapable that if an organisation has a low test capability score then any strategic approach to testing or any number of ISTQB certified clones will at best be a very expensive exercise in futility but at the same time as your capability to make the correct decisions is poor you will try all the cheap quick fix solutions. If your Capability score is very high, then chances are you already test really, really well in which case you don’t need guys like me. What I am hinting at is that irrespective of what we strategise in terms of testing, it is just as important to communicate that the organisational capability to do stuff that supports testing is FAR more important tnan the exercise of actually testing. Make my life easier and you won’t need to test!

]]> By: Peter http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/370/comment-page-1#comment-223861 Peter Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:15:06 +0000 http://www.satisfice.com/blog/?p=370#comment-223861 Thanks Michael, Not sure about Gadfly, but I will admit his Bach is worse than his bite lately. I think once you get to the stage of seeing the same old rubbish getting chucked over the fence you are bound by concience to try and make things better. After 25 years of testing I am a bit tired of strapping on the armour and chasing windmills. Now if we could find a way to make testing redundant by improving the quality of the deliverable up front... I could ride into the sunset as the last "Real" tester. ...... But what would JB do? PS how do they get such excellent security check words at the bottom of the page? They are often very appropriate! Thanks Michael,

Not sure about Gadfly, but I will admit his Bach is worse than his bite lately. I think once you get to the stage of seeing the same old rubbish getting chucked over the fence you are bound by concience to try and make things better. After 25 years of testing I am a bit tired of strapping on the armour and chasing windmills. Now if we could find a way to make testing redundant by improving the quality of the deliverable up front… I could ride into the sunset as the last “Real” tester. …… But what would JB do? PS how do they get such excellent security check words at the bottom of the page? They are often very appropriate!

]]> By: Michael M. Butler http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/370/comment-page-1#comment-223752 Michael M. Butler Mon, 02 Nov 2009 04:50:31 +0000 http://www.satisfice.com/blog/?p=370#comment-223752 Permit me to say that James has matured nicely out of "enfant terrible" and is now working on "honorable gadfly" status, as far as I can tell. :) Me, I've lost count of the times I've done more than just find defects. Contributing to documentation being a big thing that doesn't ordinarily make it onto the official "testing" charter. I agree that, in almost every context I can think of, the expression "Quality Assurance" is pretty much newspeak or utter bilge where software development is concerned. "Quality Assessment" might not be so bad. As I might have said here before, one of the things that bugs me is the sometimes popular idea that the "QA" "department" should be one guy -- who also runs the daily builds. That one still makes me shake my head. Permit me to say that James has matured nicely out of “enfant terrible” and is now working on “honorable gadfly” status, as far as I can tell. :)

Me, I’ve lost count of the times I’ve done more than just find defects. Contributing to documentation being a big thing that doesn’t ordinarily make it onto the official “testing” charter.

I agree that, in almost every context I can think of, the expression “Quality Assurance” is pretty much newspeak or utter bilge where software development is concerned. “Quality Assessment” might not be so bad.

As I might have said here before, one of the things that bugs me is the sometimes popular idea that the “QA” “department” should be one guy — who also runs the daily builds. That one still makes me shake my head.

]]> By: Peter http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/370/comment-page-1#comment-223728 Peter Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:29:23 +0000 http://www.satisfice.com/blog/?p=370#comment-223728 #sigh# Whatever happened to Testers find defects and developers fix them. Kaner, Falk and Nguyen wrote the book, it is still the book. All the rest of this stuff seems to be self-perpetuated to make someone a living or reinvent the bleeding obvious. I am also starting to hear that certification now equips people to be QA testers, QA Test Engineers, QA Test Managers... So now sticking QA on the front suddenly legitimises this nonsense? On the one hand James the enfant terrible bucaneering around screaming THINK and on the other hand exhortations that you don't need to think if you have completed our 1.5 day course and got your bit of paper. READ THE BLOODY BOOK. #sigh#

Whatever happened to Testers find defects and developers fix them. Kaner, Falk and Nguyen wrote the book, it is still the book. All the rest of this stuff seems to be self-perpetuated to make someone a living or reinvent the bleeding obvious. I am also starting to hear that certification now equips people to be QA testers, QA Test Engineers, QA Test Managers… So now sticking QA on the front suddenly legitimises this nonsense? On the one hand James the enfant terrible bucaneering around screaming THINK and on the other hand exhortations that you don’t need to think if you have completed our 1.5 day course and got your bit of paper. READ THE BLOODY BOOK.

]]> By: Shrini Kulkarni http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/370/comment-page-1#comment-222334 Shrini Kulkarni Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:34:35 +0000 http://www.satisfice.com/blog/?p=370#comment-222334 James How about this polarity "Verbal vs Pictorial thinking/representation". I personally experienced it. Thinking about a verbal representation appear to activate difffent part of brain vs thinking about drawing a picture. Consider about ways to covey an idea - through words or through picture? We can even add "audio/video" means of representation. Shrini <em>[James' Reply: Great idea!]</em> James

How about this polarity “Verbal vs Pictorial thinking/representation”. I personally experienced it. Thinking about a verbal representation appear to activate difffent part of brain vs thinking about drawing a picture. Consider about ways to covey an idea - through words or through picture?

We can even add “audio/video” means of representation.

Shrini

[James' Reply: Great idea!]

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