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	<title>Comments on: What Impressed Me at Oredev</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/137/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/137</link>
	<description>The Consulting Software Tester</description>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/137/comment-page-1#comment-163689</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/137#comment-163689</guid>
		<description>A little off topic but on the topic of card/magic tricks, have a look at this video on TED....

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/lennart_green_does_close_up_card_magic.html

His presentation and the tricks are great! Although it is obvious that he uses trick there&#039;s no way that you can guess/see what he&#039;s doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little off topic but on the topic of card/magic tricks, have a look at this video on TED&#8230;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/lennart_green_does_close_up_card_magic.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/lennart_green_does_close_up_card_magic.html</a></p>
<p>His presentation and the tricks are great! Although it is obvious that he uses trick there&#8217;s no way that you can guess/see what he&#8217;s doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Dumitru Corobceanu</title>
		<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/137/comment-page-1#comment-162212</link>
		<dc:creator>Dumitru Corobceanu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 10:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/137#comment-162212</guid>
		<description>to Pradeep:
It wouldâ€™ve been nice if one could say this is an isolated incident, unfortunately it is not!
I know a VERRY big project where manager changed (asked testers to change) the status of the tests to something like â€œunrelatedâ€?, just to increase his Pass/Fail ratio. Tons of failed test hidden behind a ambiguous status â€“ not something Iâ€™d like to work on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to Pradeep:<br />
It wouldâ€™ve been nice if one could say this is an isolated incident, unfortunately it is not!<br />
I know a VERRY big project where manager changed (asked testers to change) the status of the tests to something like â€œunrelatedâ€?, just to increase his Pass/Fail ratio. Tons of failed test hidden behind a ambiguous status â€“ not something Iâ€™d like to work on.</p>
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		<title>By: Pradeep Soundararajan</title>
		<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/137/comment-page-1#comment-161542</link>
		<dc:creator>Pradeep Soundararajan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/137#comment-161542</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I followed James Bachâ€™s advice and got fired for it.â€? (Which although not a joke is one of the more surprising things Iâ€™ve heard from Pradeep, considering that he represents Satisfice in India.).&lt;/i&gt;

Well, let me share the rest of the story for your readers. I was working in one of the organization that believes Sick (6) Sigma is the way to go about testing. I was asked by my manager to achieve 95% test cases pass in order for our product to meet Six Sigma standards that the entire organization is rated. 

Undergoing your training lead me to use the skills I was learning to experiment at work that lead me to find a lot of bugs. I was neither able to associate those bugs with the existing test case document nor they allowed me to add test cases ( because it makes their next cycle complex )

Also, I realized I could use the test idea from a test case run it in an exploratory way by varying some parameters, I found some bugs but those bugs were not accepted because when other testers tried reproducing them using those test cases ( the way they were written ) they couldn&#039;t find it. I had to share my idea of tweaking the test idea to find those bugs.  

The estimation of number of test cases that can be run by a tester per month was based on -- a tester merely running those tests without finding bugs, reporting them, investigating them and supporting them when a developer needs help.

The more bugs I found, the more other tasks I had to do because again their 6 Sigma process mandated that a bug reported to the bug tracking system has to be supported when developers chose to fix.

Not realizing all this a test manager whom I was reporting to decided to fire me for:

a) For delaying the release by finding bugs
b) Not following the process ( passing 95% of the test cases assigned to me )
c) For not listening to what he said.

Your readers might also be interested to know that I feared to let you know this information because I feared you might not want to coach me further.

I struggled without job, without money for about 6 months till I convinced a friend of mine who in turn convinced his manager to take me by letting them know in advance that I had been fired.

About an year from being fired and being employed in another organization, I took the confidence to let James know that I was fired. I wanted to be more truthful to him and that was the only reason why I chose to share that information with him. I was aware of the risk that he might not consider coaching me further but I was in for a surprise. He appreciated me for getting myself fired from a manager who didn&#039;t value the value. He considered me to be good enough to coach further.

Today I am Satisfice India.

&lt;em&gt;[James&#039; Reply: Nice story, Pradeep. It&#039;s popular to use the pass rate of test cases to create a fake sense of test progress. I&#039;m glad you refuse to do that.]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I followed James Bachâ€™s advice and got fired for it.â€? (Which although not a joke is one of the more surprising things Iâ€™ve heard from Pradeep, considering that he represents Satisfice in India.).</i></p>
<p>Well, let me share the rest of the story for your readers. I was working in one of the organization that believes Sick (6) Sigma is the way to go about testing. I was asked by my manager to achieve 95% test cases pass in order for our product to meet Six Sigma standards that the entire organization is rated. </p>
<p>Undergoing your training lead me to use the skills I was learning to experiment at work that lead me to find a lot of bugs. I was neither able to associate those bugs with the existing test case document nor they allowed me to add test cases ( because it makes their next cycle complex )</p>
<p>Also, I realized I could use the test idea from a test case run it in an exploratory way by varying some parameters, I found some bugs but those bugs were not accepted because when other testers tried reproducing them using those test cases ( the way they were written ) they couldn&#8217;t find it. I had to share my idea of tweaking the test idea to find those bugs.  </p>
<p>The estimation of number of test cases that can be run by a tester per month was based on &#8212; a tester merely running those tests without finding bugs, reporting them, investigating them and supporting them when a developer needs help.</p>
<p>The more bugs I found, the more other tasks I had to do because again their 6 Sigma process mandated that a bug reported to the bug tracking system has to be supported when developers chose to fix.</p>
<p>Not realizing all this a test manager whom I was reporting to decided to fire me for:</p>
<p>a) For delaying the release by finding bugs<br />
b) Not following the process ( passing 95% of the test cases assigned to me )<br />
c) For not listening to what he said.</p>
<p>Your readers might also be interested to know that I feared to let you know this information because I feared you might not want to coach me further.</p>
<p>I struggled without job, without money for about 6 months till I convinced a friend of mine who in turn convinced his manager to take me by letting them know in advance that I had been fired.</p>
<p>About an year from being fired and being employed in another organization, I took the confidence to let James know that I was fired. I wanted to be more truthful to him and that was the only reason why I chose to share that information with him. I was aware of the risk that he might not consider coaching me further but I was in for a surprise. He appreciated me for getting myself fired from a manager who didn&#8217;t value the value. He considered me to be good enough to coach further.</p>
<p>Today I am Satisfice India.</p>
<p><em>[James' Reply: Nice story, Pradeep. It's popular to use the pass rate of test cases to create a fake sense of test progress. I'm glad you refuse to do that.]</em></p>
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		<title>By: Ola HyltÃ©n</title>
		<link>http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/137/comment-page-1#comment-161511</link>
		<dc:creator>Ola HyltÃ©n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/137#comment-161511</guid>
		<description>It was interesting to spend the week at Ã–redev and I agree with you that Mattias GÃ¶ranssons talk was strange but interesting. Since I currently spend some time every week at his company I&#039;ll try to get in a lunch with Mattias and try to learn more! I do believe there is a lot of stuff, that he didn&#039;t/couldn&#039;t talk about, that would be real interesting to learn more about. When I spoke to him after his talk I got the impression that he wants his tester to learn, rather than be taught. I find that reassuring, it will help him in his mission.

Oh, and  you were quite good also, James! I did enjoy the course and I learned from it, and will continue to do so as I revisit my notes and challenge you as well as everything else I encounter!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was interesting to spend the week at Ã–redev and I agree with you that Mattias GÃ¶ranssons talk was strange but interesting. Since I currently spend some time every week at his company I&#8217;ll try to get in a lunch with Mattias and try to learn more! I do believe there is a lot of stuff, that he didn&#8217;t/couldn&#8217;t talk about, that would be real interesting to learn more about. When I spoke to him after his talk I got the impression that he wants his tester to learn, rather than be taught. I find that reassuring, it will help him in his mission.</p>
<p>Oh, and  you were quite good also, James! I did enjoy the course and I learned from it, and will continue to do so as I revisit my notes and challenge you as well as everything else I encounter!</p>
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