[James' Reply: I don't know anything about it. But I have not much respect for Google when it comes to testing. They seem unable to appreciate the idea of testing skill as distinct from programming skill.]

Certificates never carry the sign of the (Good/Better/Best).

Thanks.

It might be possible for the top 10% or so of testers to do this (even that is a big ask..imagine a world where there are 1000s of brand name testers..thats just too many brand names for a brand name to have much value).. What about the other 90% of testers. The other 90% who are more of the “work to live” sort..

Being an expert at what you do is an excellent thing. However being an expert to the point where the industry recognises you by name is something that only a minscule few can enjoy.

Not advocating mediocrity here, just stating the obvious.

In my opinion the certification in it’s current form is not just worthless, but is actively harming the industry in some cases.

The worst part was that a few months later, my employer arranged for the ISTQB Certification exam to be done at our office so that the whole test organization could take it. About 3 out of 4 “passed”, some who had spent less than one hour reviewing the material, others who where new testers who had spent less than a year in the job.

IT’S A SHAM! (SHAME?!?)

But alas, my employer now has something to brag about to our customers… “ISTQB Certified Testers” (right up there with being “ISO Certified”).

Gotcha on your point about Lois, but what do you expect from a Marketing/Sales Wonk. And I agree that positioning the “selling” of the certification that way is arrogant and is just plain stupid. Is it an intimidation tactic, maybe. To me I wouldn’t consider it that but more of ignorance on her part (as you already stated). This is equivalent to the “Automation Snake Oil” you wrote about a number of years ago.

And what you said about the environment / attitude outside of the U.S. I have heard of, but not to the level you descibe. Cool, thanks for the clarification and insight.

BTW, I have no idea where my CSTE pin is at these days. Guess I didn’t need it.

–Not that an Associate’s degree (two year) curriculum elaborating only the information, nomenclature and worldview embodied in those certifications would be any better.

The expression “gilding a dead horse” comes to mind. Except it seems like that would be more like piling a bunch of dead horse carcasses in a silo and labeling the aggregate “New Improved Super Horse, now with extra Deadness!”

Precisely the same request and claim ought to be laid at the feet of the people who hold out for sale, or imbue with value, “certifications” that take a competent hack a day to cram for and another couple of hours to pass.

Interesting point… I’ve never felt intimidated into doing any certification or training, especially in the last few years. I have wanted to do training to help improve my skills and prepare myself for new technologies we have to deal with. Sometimes I have paid for it myself and the majority of the time I’ve gotten my employer to pay. Part of the deal of being an employee, give and take. I think at times I’ve had to intimidate my employer into sending me to training.

I’m curious, where are you seeing/hearing about the intimidation to get certified. I don’t believe we have that problem here in the U.S. But again you travel around alot and have potentially more exposure to it.

Finally, I’d be interested in another blog post regarding your last comment of “The situation today is darker. There is no longer any reason to believe that a certified tester has any more motivation than one who is uncertified.” Please elaborate more about why it appears darker and why/how there is no difference in motivation levels.

[James' Reply: The intimidation factor is evident in the arrogant reply that Lois made to my inquiries. She sells certification in a "do it or else you won't be able to work" way. In Europe, certification is a much bigger deal, and I've spoken to many here who say they wouldn't have done it if their employers had not insisted. I've also spoken to several testing company executives who do insist upon certification because they believe that their customers are demanding it. My reaction is puzzlement. No one asks me-- EVER!-- whether I am certified in anything. It has ever been an issue. I believe that's the value of building a brand name for yourself.]

Hmm…. makes me wonder what you thought of me all those years ago when I interviewed with you at STLabs. I had just gotten the CSTE from QAI when we met. I remember your comment about “nice pin” I guess I did alright, you guys offered me a job.

And I have to agree with you about the state of the certifying agencies today. It has become a money mill for them, and the ‘value’ and ‘prestige’ has definitely gone. I didn’t re-up my CSTE a couple of years ago. I guess the only ‘validity’ I can give to them is that at least they are trying to do something to get us (Testers) some credit for our line of work. Unfortunately it is ‘paper’ thin (sorry for the pun) at its best.

Just to use a line from my Scuba Instructor days… “Certified doesn’t really mean qualified”.

[James' Reply: The certification wouldn't have helped you, but at that time, it also would not have hurt. At that time, it was not something that testers were intimidated into doing. The situation today is darker. There is no longer any reason to believe that a certified tester has any more motivation than one who is uncertified.]

While I have no doubt that such Certification Selling bodies are scoundrels, I would like to politely disagree with James that they are fools! They are NOT fools; rather smart business people making a fortune out of selling their non-sense products (if there is any product in the first place) to a group of mindless fools (who blindly value their crap as if those were the Holy Grails of testing)! I would like to call the testers, the hiring managers, the organizations who mandate such certifications as FOOLS, not the certifying bodies.

In our latest appraisal in my organization, I came to know that there was a new column in my salary structure. When inquired, I came to know that the management has come forward to reimburse up to 15,000 INR per year for employees who spend it on Certifications. I had a long debate (that lasted even longer than the actual appraisal review meeting) with my HR Manager and my General Manager trying to tell them how the Organization might be wasting money by doing so! Though they seemed to understand my point, it appeared that they were reluctant to remove this compensation from every employee’s pay sheet. The reasons could have been many. But the bottom line is:

1. Till today, I have that 15000 rupees sitting un-reimbursed in my account!
2. In any meeting/presentation/conference where the topic of Certification pops-up my Manager points that question to me with a smile.
3. Since that day my Manager tags me as an “Anti-Certification” guy, which I am sure he uses with a positive intention and I take it as a compliment.

-Debasis

[James' Reply: No, I don't recognize or accept that you are impotent to open doors without some bullshit certification. To recognize that would go against my experience and heritage. I dropped out of high school, yet I have achieved success and recognition in this field. I have never had any kind of technical certification. What I have done, you also can do. In a sense, it's easy-- you just have to be enthusiastic and think and study on your own.]

I’m sorry if this seems rather bitter. Really it is not my intention to alienate people here, I do agree with the argument, but not 100%. I’ve been working within testing for about 12 years now and about 11 of those I had no certification so I can see that it is possible to make it in this industry without the damn certificates. The problem is that the certificates are now recognised by employers and so like it or not, it’s worth having them to get the job in the first place. I noticed about 18 months ago how much more difficult it was to get an interview because I didn’t have the certificates. This is not sad and weak, it’s reality.

[James' Reply: It may be your reality because you haven't YET put together a compelling portfolio as an alternative to certification. If you've been in the business 12 years, you should be able to speak and write about testing in effective and persuasive ways-- assuming that you have worked at your craft. If you are commenting on my blog, that tells me you are reading, at least. I bet, with a little tweak here and there, you could begin developing yourself into an effective testing brand name, just as I have done. Then you won't be seen as "generic testing guy with certification" but rather as "Paul Darby, noted testing expert."]

What if the best way to discredit certifications is to have more people get the certification and then comment on how absolutely worthless it is? Sure, this will put some money in their pocket at first, but eventually the market would be so saturated with certifications that no one will really care about them anymore and this whole fad might (fingers crossed) be dead.

[James' Reply: This already happened. But then the certification bullies invented a new level of certification. And so it will go... As each certification saturates the market, a new one will be invented. It's a planned obsolescence kind of thing.]